As news of a split in Sabah Umno gains wider attention, there is no one more happy about the development than Pakatan Rakyat leader Anwar Ibrahim. Sharing his excitement over what he sees as "a positive" development in the Land Below the Wind, Anwar told Malaysiakini in an interview that Pakatan would pick up "a substantial" number of seats in the state.
But with Pakatan Rakyat's meagre presence in the North Borneo state, Anwar said, the coalition would work with splinter parties and civil society groups, to the extent of conceding seats to them in the general election.
However, he added this did not mean inviting former Sabah PKR chief Jeffery Kitingan to return to the fold, as there has been far too much criticism against encouraging "too much jumping" among parties.
Over in the peninsula, Anwar said, "talks" have been in place between Pakatan and outspoken Umno MP Tengku Razaleigh Hamzah's "representatives". Pakatan has also been in touch also with Amanah, an NGO headed by Tengku Razaleigh, but the "discussions" have not broached the issue of seats to contest in the coming general election.
In the following exerpt of Malaysiakini's interview with Anwar, held on Thursday, the PKR de factor leader also speaks of Kita president and one-time PKR man Zaid Ibrahim and being "condemned" by his "friend", Raja Petra Kamarudin.
The content has been edited for language and brevity.
There appears to be a split within Umno in Sabah. How does this figure in Pakatan's chances in the election there?
Yes, very positive for us. I think we have to wait for a few weeks for the series of announcements. I think Malaysiakini better send people there.
Are you talking to the splinter group in Sabah?
How should I say this... (a long pause). I am monitoring the situation. It is certainly to our advantage. Because, well, probably they may not back Pakatan Rakyat per se, but certainly they're not with BN.
Will you cooperate with them?
Hmmm.
So you expect to gain more seats in Sarawak and Sabah?
Yes, most people do accept that we'll gain more seats in Sarawak, and quite a substantial number in Sabah.
How many seats in Sabah, and how many in Sarawak does Pakatan expect to win?
Frankly I don't know. Much more than in 2008, and enough for us to control Putrajaya.
You are that positive?
Yeah, in Sabah. Sabah is certainly much better. The split is a major factor. But also the resentment against the state leadership. In Sarawak, you just focus on (Chief Minister Abdul) Taib Mahmud.
In Sabah, the sentiment against the state leadership is quite strong... Chief Minister and Sabah BN chief Musa Aman failed to deal with the whole situation.
In Sarawak, PBB has a stronghold. In Sabah, Umno does not have the stronghold now. Kadazan support is gone, and except for (former Sabah CM Joseph) Pairin (Kitingan), I don't think they have any party or any personality to hold the Kadazan together.
Any chances of bringing Jeffrey Kitingan back to PKR?
Some friends are talking to him, but bringing back in... I have been severely criticised over this thing. I don't mind people talking to them, but you know this culture of jumping too much. This was the larger criticism against me and I have to concede. I thought it is a broad coalition and anybody who wants to support, okay lah, but in the process you realise the problems.
So, not in the party but working with the party?
Yes, I think that it will be a better arrangement, unless the people are totally committed to their party policies and Pakatan Rakyat principles, and prepared to work as team players. Otherwise, I'm not...
Malaysiakini, too, has been very critical, I concede. People want to come in, and other people say this fellow or that fellow has a different agenda, a hidden agenda... I don't know (about the agendas), but you have to accept (support).
What about Tengku Razaleigh? Are you working with him?
I met his representatives, and they earlier met Azmin. There have been talks with Amanah or his representatives. But our plan with Amanah is that... number one, the Pakatan Rakyat platform must be clearly supported.
This is in all our dealings, irrespective of with Tengku Razaleigh, Sabah groups or splinter groups, because, for now, the people expect us to be firm in our principles, because of our past experiences with quite a number of personnel jumping around... you now.
They have to accept the policies. Its not just a minor adjustment here or there. There must be constitutional guarantee on the issue of freedom, conscience, rule of law, free media, the Internal Security Act and this Universities and University Colleges Act.
How will this cooperation work in terms of the election?
It is probably clearer in Sabah. They will have Keadilan's (seats), because most of the seats affected are our Keadilan (PKR) seats. Keadilan may have to concede (seats), although negotiations are still going on.
Azmin has been assigned to head negotiations, but I think the general mandate given to him is that we probably will have to concede more seats. Keadilan will have to concede quite a number of seats.
We have not gone to that stage with Amanah, as they have not stated that they will contest any seat.
Will you cooperate with Zaid?
I have seen positive statements from him.
Is this a sign that of mending ties?
I consider mending ties my strength, but friends think it is my weakness. People make mistakes, but we change, so we accept with kindness. Who are we to condemn people for life? I'm not talking about Zaid, but in general. That is my attitude now.
My friends always say: "These frogs, (Kulim Bandar Baharu MP) Zulkifli Noordin and (Padang Serai MP N) Gobalakrishnan go around badmouthing you and then tomorrow they will be the first in line to kiss your hand and you forgive everybody. You are like Tunku Abdul Rahman." (laughs)
What about your ties with blogger Raja Petra Kamaruddin?
Of course it's a bit disappointing, for he has been a friend. He was close when I was in jail. At that time everyone was everyone's friend. I met him once or twice in London. I understand his problems because he shared quite a bit... still, I don't believe that he should cross the line and go to that extent.
Even if he chooses to appease (Prime Minister) Najib (Abdul Razak) and (Najib's wife) Rosmah (Mansor) and Umno... not that I agree, but you should not go and condemn friends.
Are you hurt by his remarks?
I have been betrayed enough in my life and it does not really affect me. But you know, I said, 'Oh, one more'. But of course when people do that, it tends to go to the extreme. I chose not to respond much to him.
Although he brought up this (Datuk T member Shazryl) Eskay saying I claim not to know (Raja Petra). I never said I don't know him. But I was never close with him.
I don't even know his full name. His real name. That's the truth, I don't know where he stays. And you call him my best friend? Susah juga nak kata. If I deny it, it gets petty. 'He's my friend, no, he's not my friend'. But I never said that I don't know him.
RPK has done this to me as far back as 2006. He had some problem with (PKR organ) Suara Keadilan and he started attacking. I was asked about it in Penang, at a session with Aliran, and my response was, he has done so much good and he has been a kind supporter in the Free Anwar campaign, so I accept some of his criticism, although I disagree with him... He cooled off for some time.
That is not new. His political orientation was exposed during the Sarawak election, and it's not new. But I'm surprised that not many people know, those who follow the alternative media know that. The Sarawak thing was quite severe, coming at a time just before the state election.
His writings used to benefit you. Who does it benefit now?
Now it's beneficial to Najib lah, but for a while, I think. Somebody joked to me and said: "Anwar, don't worry, let him attack you and people will go back to his blog and they will read what he used to write."
Utusan Malaysia is promoting him, forgetting the fact that once it introduces his website, people will go and read. And he will have to explain a lot of allegations he made against Najib, (deputy PM) Muhyiddin (Yassin) and Rosmah. So they will be kept busy, lah.
Like Wikileaks, remember? There was a big fuss. (Information, Communications and Culture Minister) Rais (Yatim) played up the issue and suddenly the Najib-Altantuyaa case was in Wikileaks and immediately they blacked it out. No more talk about Wikileaks. It was completely buried.
So you think the RPK interviews will backfire?
To me, it does not matter. We have to go on, lah.
(This interview was conducted by Steven Gan, Aidila Razak and Salhan K Ahmad for Malaysiakini)cheers.
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